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	<title>Comments on: Grassroots Mapping with the Shipibo in the center of Lima</title>
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	<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/</link>
	<description>Stories of community based mapping projects</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 05:09:07 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: IvoSan</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>IvoSan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-481</guid>
		<description>Nice project.  If you need any help from the Peruvian autorouting map project, just ask.



http://perut.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice project.  If you need any help from the Peruvian autorouting map project, just ask.</p>
<p><a href="http://perut.org/" rel="nofollow">http://perut.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bergen</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bergen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification Jeffrey,

I&#039;m glad to see that your head&#039;s in the right place as far as sustainable solutions.  So many people these days do *humanitarian* projects that ultimately serve very little besides the originator&#039;s ego.  It will be interesting to see where this goes.  

From my perspective it seems that it would be good to develop the home-made hot air balloon in kit form (financial limitations of helium) then package with instructions and supply local individuals with these kits so that they could serve specific communities like the Shipibo.  If you got something like that up and running you could probably get a very strong donor response from members on photo.net for compact cameras that would serve your purpose.  Sounds like fun- and definitely useful in certain situations.

Heck, you might consider hitting up goprocamera.com for camera sponsorship.  Would be an intriguing application for their product.  They&#039;re light, shoot video and stills, and are cheap enough that they could potentially float you some units without breaking the bank.

Anyway-  keep truckin and good luck.

Mike Bergen
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aidjoy.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NGO AidJoy&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification Jeffrey,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to see that your head&#8217;s in the right place as far as sustainable solutions.  So many people these days do *humanitarian* projects that ultimately serve very little besides the originator&#8217;s ego.  It will be interesting to see where this goes.  </p>
<p>From my perspective it seems that it would be good to develop the home-made hot air balloon in kit form (financial limitations of helium) then package with instructions and supply local individuals with these kits so that they could serve specific communities like the Shipibo.  If you got something like that up and running you could probably get a very strong donor response from members on photo.net for compact cameras that would serve your purpose.  Sounds like fun- and definitely useful in certain situations.</p>
<p>Heck, you might consider hitting up goprocamera.com for camera sponsorship.  Would be an intriguing application for their product.  They&#8217;re light, shoot video and stills, and are cheap enough that they could potentially float you some units without breaking the bank.</p>
<p>Anyway-  keep truckin and good luck.</p>
<p>Mike Bergen<br />
<a href="http://www.aidjoy.org" rel="nofollow">NGO AidJoy</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Warren</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-48</guid>
		<description>Hi, Mike - good question! Well, conventional tools typically involve either GPS equipment, which at the accuracy needed costs over $150/unit (though loaned equipment can be used to do some pretty fantastic work: &lt;a href=&quot;http://mapkibera.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mapkibera.org&lt;/a&gt;) for several units, or buying satellite imagery, which I&#039;m not even sure exists at good enough resolution and recency to be of use, not to mention it&#039;s hard to imagine going to an internet cafe and paying for it online with a credit card if you live in Cantagallos.

So on the one hand, I&#039;m just trying to bring the price down, and at the same time capture much *better* imagery, both on the basis of resolution and recency. The whole kite rig can be put together for only $50, and balloons are not much more, at about $150 (remember with GPS you&#039;d probably have to buy a few of them, and they&#039;re illegal in some countries). 

I&#039;d also say that the definition of the user base is important. I&#039;m not just wandering into some settlement and launching a balloon - I&#039;m working with dedicated groups of educators and aid workers who have worked with these communities for an extended period of time - years, in some cases. It&#039;s just as important that Carla, Nancy, and Ysabel of Manzanita &quot;A&quot;, Daniel Miracle of &lt;a href=&quot;http://escuelab.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Escuelab&lt;/a&gt;, and Ernesto, Sandy, and Sara of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cedro.org.pe/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CEDRO&lt;/a&gt; become familiar with these techniques, since they have the trust of the residents of their respective target communities. And traditional GIS practices ask a bit much technologically - the way we&#039;re doing it, you don&#039;t even need to download an application - you can generate the map at an internet cafe using Firefox, if you like. 

Of course I&#039;m also trying to push the envelope here a bit, and to explore what works and what doesn&#039;t, but it seems like a lot of the web-based neogeography toos have a lot to offer at a low barrier-to-entry compared to the GIS toolchain. So that&#039;s an area of interest/research to me. (Full disclosure; I created &lt;a href=&quot;http://cartagen.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Cartagen&lt;/a&gt;, which tries to completely upend some of the tile-based systems used by even the most cutting edge neogeographers, so obviously I have weird ideas about how maps should be made, LOL)

Finally, though, I&#039;d say that beyond being cheaper and better (resolution, recency), the most important part of this balloon/kite process to me is that it does more to include residents of these kinds of settlements in documenting and *defining* their geography. To me, GPS is a great tool, but it&#039;s kind of a black box as far as users are concerned -- hell, I don&#039;t even really really know how they work. Simply taking pictures of your home from above (pictures which YOU OWN, no less) makes immediate, tangible sense. You can even see yourself in every picture, holding the string! Which is to say that it&#039;s a lot more tangible than a satellite. So there&#039;s this other, more psychological, epistemological angle which is important. 

Sorry to blabber on -- I hope that makes some sense? Please don&#039;t hesitate to criticize - I&#039;m still refining these ideas so I&#039;d love to hear your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Mike &#8211; good question! Well, conventional tools typically involve either GPS equipment, which at the accuracy needed costs over $150/unit (though loaned equipment can be used to do some pretty fantastic work: <a href="http://mapkibera.org" rel="nofollow">mapkibera.org</a>) for several units, or buying satellite imagery, which I&#8217;m not even sure exists at good enough resolution and recency to be of use, not to mention it&#8217;s hard to imagine going to an internet cafe and paying for it online with a credit card if you live in Cantagallos.</p>
<p>So on the one hand, I&#8217;m just trying to bring the price down, and at the same time capture much *better* imagery, both on the basis of resolution and recency. The whole kite rig can be put together for only $50, and balloons are not much more, at about $150 (remember with GPS you&#8217;d probably have to buy a few of them, and they&#8217;re illegal in some countries). </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also say that the definition of the user base is important. I&#8217;m not just wandering into some settlement and launching a balloon &#8211; I&#8217;m working with dedicated groups of educators and aid workers who have worked with these communities for an extended period of time &#8211; years, in some cases. It&#8217;s just as important that Carla, Nancy, and Ysabel of Manzanita &#8220;A&#8221;, Daniel Miracle of <a href="http://escuelab.org" rel="nofollow">Escuelab</a>, and Ernesto, Sandy, and Sara of <a href="http://www.cedro.org.pe/" rel="nofollow">CEDRO</a> become familiar with these techniques, since they have the trust of the residents of their respective target communities. And traditional GIS practices ask a bit much technologically &#8211; the way we&#8217;re doing it, you don&#8217;t even need to download an application &#8211; you can generate the map at an internet cafe using Firefox, if you like. </p>
<p>Of course I&#8217;m also trying to push the envelope here a bit, and to explore what works and what doesn&#8217;t, but it seems like a lot of the web-based neogeography toos have a lot to offer at a low barrier-to-entry compared to the GIS toolchain. So that&#8217;s an area of interest/research to me. (Full disclosure; I created <a href="http://cartagen.org" rel="nofollow">Cartagen</a>, which tries to completely upend some of the tile-based systems used by even the most cutting edge neogeographers, so obviously I have weird ideas about how maps should be made, LOL)</p>
<p>Finally, though, I&#8217;d say that beyond being cheaper and better (resolution, recency), the most important part of this balloon/kite process to me is that it does more to include residents of these kinds of settlements in documenting and *defining* their geography. To me, GPS is a great tool, but it&#8217;s kind of a black box as far as users are concerned &#8212; hell, I don&#8217;t even really really know how they work. Simply taking pictures of your home from above (pictures which YOU OWN, no less) makes immediate, tangible sense. You can even see yourself in every picture, holding the string! Which is to say that it&#8217;s a lot more tangible than a satellite. So there&#8217;s this other, more psychological, epistemological angle which is important. </p>
<p>Sorry to blabber on &#8212; I hope that makes some sense? Please don&#8217;t hesitate to criticize &#8211; I&#8217;m still refining these ideas so I&#8217;d love to hear your thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bergen</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Bergen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Hi there Jeffrey-  Interesting project you&#039;ve got here.  Could you explain what you see as the benefits to using these techniques?  It seems that the technology you&#039;re using (camera, helium balloon, computer, software) isn&#039;t really more accessible to impoverished people than conventional tools.  Not trying to attack you at all.  I&#039;m just curious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there Jeffrey-  Interesting project you&#8217;ve got here.  Could you explain what you see as the benefits to using these techniques?  It seems that the technology you&#8217;re using (camera, helium balloon, computer, software) isn&#8217;t really more accessible to impoverished people than conventional tools.  Not trying to attack you at all.  I&#8217;m just curious.</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-45</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by TheEyeOfTim: Grassroots Mapping in Lima (via @BoingBoing) http://tinyurl.com/yf9kpm2...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by TheEyeOfTim: Grassroots Mapping in Lima (via @BoingBoing) <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yf9kpm2.." rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/yf9kpm2..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Grassroots Mapping » Blog Archive » Grassroots Mapping with the Shipibo in the center of Lima -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Grassroots Mapping » Blog Archive » Grassroots Mapping with the Shipibo in the center of Lima -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-44</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Martijn van Exel, Matt Gedigian and TheEyeOfTim, Eclectica. Eclectica said: One more link before I go—mapping with aerial photography in Peru, using helium balloons: http://eclectica.co.uk/00239 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Martijn van Exel, Matt Gedigian and TheEyeOfTim, Eclectica. Eclectica said: One more link before I go—mapping with aerial photography in Peru, using helium balloons: <a href="http://eclectica.co.uk/00239" rel="nofollow">http://eclectica.co.uk/00239</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Warren</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Hey seth - wish you were there, it was a lot of fun. I&#039;m trying to get a final map together to print at poster-size. I also have a lot more photos I&#039;ll keep posting in the next few days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey seth &#8211; wish you were there, it was a lot of fun. I&#8217;m trying to get a final map together to print at poster-size. I also have a lot more photos I&#8217;ll keep posting in the next few days.</p>
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		<title>By: Activist MIT cartographers aid Peruvian squatters &#124; The World Matters</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Activist MIT cartographers aid Peruvian squatters &#124; The World Matters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 02:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-32</guid>
		<description>[...] which supports communities in cartographic dispute by creating low-cost mapping tools.&#8221; Grassroots Mapping with the Shipibo in the center of Lima (Thanks, Jeffrey!)  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] which supports communities in cartographic dispute by creating low-cost mapping tools.&#8221; Grassroots Mapping with the Shipibo in the center of Lima (Thanks, Jeffrey!)  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Hunter</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 01:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Wow this is fantastic! I&#039;m so happy to see the pictures and this looks like one of the best results you have had so far. This morning I presented your project to 100 high school kids at Urban Ecology Institute in Boston, where Kim works. 
Seth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow this is fantastic! I&#8217;m so happy to see the pictures and this looks like one of the best results you have had so far. This morning I presented your project to 100 high school kids at Urban Ecology Institute in Boston, where Kim works.<br />
Seth</p>
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		<title>By: Activist MIT cartographers aid Peruvian squatters &#124; Geek News and Musings</title>
		<link>http://grassrootsmapping.org/2010/01/grassroots-mapping-with-the-shipibo-in-the-center-of-lima/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Activist MIT cartographers aid Peruvian squatters &#124; Geek News and Musings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://grassrootsmapping.org/?p=73#comment-27</guid>
		<description>[...] Grassroots Mapping with the Shipibo in the center of Lima [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Grassroots Mapping with the Shipibo in the center of Lima [...]</p>
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